There was a thread in another post about what makes a good lead-off man. Traditionally the thought has been speed rules. In a lot of ways that's true. Once you get a guy on you want him to be able to be a threat of running so you can alter the pitcher and amke him think about you while you're on base and make it easier for the big bats in the line-up. But at the same time, the Youkilis'(sp) are making a spot for themselves because they know how to get on base and get the inning started. Here's my leaders:
Jose Reyes - he's got pop in his bat to go along with a great bunting ability and speed. When he stays healthy he's as good as it gets.
Ichiro - The guy does everything right. Great hitter, great control of the bat to be able to put the ball where the whole is. Once he gets on he's got some wheels.
Jonny Damon - Good balance of speed and power. He's got a good OBP for a lead-off guy and when he comes up later in games with guys on base he can still drive in runs with 35 doubles, 24 home runs, and 80 RBIs
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I agree with all three that you put up there. Another name that could turn some heads this year if he matches what he did last year is Hanley Ramirez down in Florida. The guys is a poor man's Reyes but he needs to match what he did last year before people really think he is toward the top of the list.
How about Grady Sizemore? He is a Jonny Damon-esque guy who will go .300-25-100-110-25 at least
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Ichiro is the obvious selection, in my opinion. He's among the league leaders in hits every year, if not the leader, and steals bases at will once he's on. He doesn't strike out often either which is a big plus. You want a guy who gets on base so you can move him around, and that's what Ichiro does.
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"It's the fans that need spring training. You gotta get 'em interested." - Harry Caray
What about David Eckstein? The guy just works hard and is scrapy. I don't know if I would have said one of the best last year at this time, but he really showed his worth in the world series.
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
What about Alfonso Soriano. If I'm not mistaken hes projected to hit lead off withthe Cubs this year. Talk about power and speed meshing at the top of the order. The guy is a one of a kind player in the league right now.
As far as a lead-off guy goes, his BA stinks. He is definetly out of the mold of a normal lead-off guy, but the advantages of getting soriano about 50+ AB than if he was hitting say third or 5th can outweigh the SO and the low BA. Plus the guy can run.
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I don't think Rafeal Furcal should even be in this discussion. Yeah, he's good but he's not in the same league as Soriano, Jose Reyes, Ichiro or Johnny Damon.
Yea I agree with Furcal, he's got an arm and a half in the field but really isn't elite from the lead off position.
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I think you have to talk about Soriano with the best of them. He's a little unconventional in that he has more power than most lead off men, but he's just as dangerous as most on the base pads. The one thing that he needs to improve is his OBP. If he can improve that, he might take the cake.
Until then, I still like Ichiro.
-- Edited by cubsfan42 at 02:25, 2007-03-06
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"It's the fans that need spring training. You gotta get 'em interested." - Harry Caray
really alfonso soriano just has to take some pitches, yea the guy strikes out too much but its because he gets too jumpy and wants to hit the ball right now, similar to how jeff francouer is. another bonus with soriano is, say at the end of a game in the NL you pinch hit for the pitcher and get a rally going at the bottom of the line up, soriano gives you the ability to drive those runs in, as opposed to making your rally go two more hitters till you get to your rbi guys
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Soriano is at the point where he is going to be what he is as a player. The only argument for putting him at leadoff position is his speed, which is not enough. If you take away his speed, he is basically a power hitter who strikes out a lot and swings away. Saying that he just needs to improve his .OBP is like saying Britney just needs to cut down her drinking a bit.
You want your lead off man to be able to get on base in key situations, and be an intelligent hitter. Soriano has plainly shown in key situations that he doesn't have the mental discipline at the plate to be an effective situational hitter. He has the physical tools and will kill mediocre pitching, but against good pitching he gets instantly neutralized. He's not a great player by any stretch of the imagination, and, aside from being quick, is terrible in every other aspect of what is required from a leadoff hitter.
Cubsfan - I am sorry to be the one to break this to you, but that contract was a terrible one.
It's one thing to say he doesn't belong in the lead-off spot. Yea he's not prototypical, but he's not first person to excel in a position where he's not a normal fit. The fact is, over his career the guy has averaged 35 HR 94RBI 35SB and a .280 BA. In this day and age in baseball if you're team has money to spend you can't overspend on someone. Maybe he should be hitting somewhere other than leadoff, but the fact is, the guy is an unbelievable player and the Cubs will be much better off with him. Not to mention in his first year ever playing left field he had a .969 fielding percentage and had 22 assists, 10 more than any other outfielder in the majors. With his athleticism he will fit in fine in center with a little seasoning.
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
To be fair, a lot of the assists come from people testing his arm early on, but he still needed to throw them out so you can't ignore it.
I don't think Soriano would be hitting lead off if he was on a team that had a genuine lead off guy. However, the Cubs don't have that guy so why not let Soriano go out there and do his thing, seems like the next best alternative.
The Brewers are trying to decide who to have at lead-off between Hart and Weeks. Hart is someone who is a lot more like Soriano than he is like Ichiro (with apologies to both for comparing Hart in any way to either of them at this point)...but the benefit of having a fast guy who can hit for power outweighs the negative OBP
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Soriano probably wouldn't be hitting leadoff if the Cubs had someone else. But that's a complement to Soriano. With the year he had last year, he would have been better suited in the middle of the line up, but the Nationals needed him to hit lead off. How many players out there can just fill in and hit in the lead off spot because that's where the team needs you?
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Here's the way I'd set up the Line-up for the Cubs if I were Manager:
Lead-off = Mark DeRosa - Not much speed, but a good OBP (compared to the other cubs) 2 = Michael Barret - Good average and a good OBP 3 = Derrick Lee - Power plus OBP. 4 = Alfonso Soriano - Power and speed 5 = Aramis Ramirez - Power 6 = Cliff Loyd/Matt Murton 7 = Jacques Jones 8 = Ronny Cedeno 9 = Pitcher
That line-up would likely have people on base (DeRosa/Barrett) for their sluggers (Lee, Soriano, and Ramirez). Also, the sluggers would protect each other; kind of like a homeless man's White Sox (Konerko, Thome, and Dye). Then if the top of the order did nothing, you'd have Soriano leading off the top of the Second inning. You utilize both his power and his speed.
Last year there were 11 players that stole more than 40 bases last year, one of which we know is Soriano. Putting him at clean up would destroy that. Another way to think about that is replace 40 singles with doubles. His slugging would be even more through the roof!
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But the percentage of how successful Soriano was doesn't make a difference. The fact that he is a threat to steal and makes pitchers pay attention to him is enough. Nobody thinks he's one of the premier base stealers in the league. Then again, nobody has better power for someone that is a threat to run.
If you lead-off Soriano, you get the stolen bases (on the off chance he reaches first). But the issue is that he hit 40 home runs. If you lead him off, a lot of those are going to be solo shots.
I personally put more of an emphasis on HRs with people on base than trying to rattle a pitcher with a stolen base threat. I just think the pitcher would be more rattled giving up a 2 or 3 run HR. Of course, that might just be my American League mentality.
Lead-off = Mark DeRosa - Not much speed, but a good OBP (compared to the other cubs) 2 = Michael Barret - Good average and a good OBP 3 = Derrick Lee - Power plus OBP. 4 = Alfonso Soriano - Power and speed 5 = Aramis Ramirez - Power 6 = Cliff Loyd/Matt Murton 7 = Jacques Jones 8 = Ronny Cedeno 9 = Pitcher I actually like that lineup. Cesar Izturis will be playing short and not Cedeno as far as I know, but it wouldn't upset me to see Soriano in the middle of the lineup. I might move up Soriano to the 2 spot and then Barrett down to around 7 because Barrett seems to hit better later in the lineup and Soriano could get some easy steals when the pitches are focusing on Lee and Ramirez.
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"It's the fans that need spring training. You gotta get 'em interested." - Harry Caray
Lead-off = Mark DeRosa - Not much speed, but a good OBP (compared to the other cubs) 2 = Michael Barret - Good average and a good OBP 3 = Derrick Lee - Power plus OBP. 4 = Alfonso Soriano - Power and speed 5 = Aramis Ramirez - Power 6 = Cliff Loyd/Matt Murton 7 = Jacques Jones 8 = Ronny Cedeno 9 = Pitcher
The question is who is the best leadoff hitter...so I don't know why there is a whole lineup in the discussion...as for answering the question, I gotta say Ichiro is as good as it gets at the time being.
Thats true, Soriano is hitting out of position in the line up. But the fact is, he hits where he is told to hit, and for a guy with his game he has done a pretty good job filling in. I'd rather have soriano on my team than any of the other mentioned leadoff guys if I could have one or the other, with the exception of maybe Jose Reyes, but I would rather have an Ichiro, Damon, or Reyes hitting in the 1 spot.
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"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I've heard some reporters saying that he could win the MVP this year. Not bad from a lead-off hitter. He should definitely be considered with the Ichiro, Jose Reyes, Soriano group.
I don't like Soriano as a leadoff hitter right now. He does not hit for avg. and he hits too many homeruns for a leadoff hitter. You want your leadoff to get on base and distract the pitcher so that guys deeper in the lineup, in this case Ramirez and Lee, can hit those homers for the leadoff. The Cubs really do not have a good leadoff guy other than Soriano though. Best leadoff guy is Ichiro. I like Reyes and what he does, but Ichiro is the complete package with fielding, hitting (pretty sure the guy has not hit under .300 his entire career in America), and speed. He also has a laser rocket arm. The issue is very debatable.
