There are a bunch of great hitters right now, but I have to go with Vladamir Guerrero. He hits for power and average while swinging at pitches he has no business going after. You may say that is not a quality of a good hitter. However, I think he just is tired of people trying to pitch around, him so he would rather just take that pitch that is almost in the dirt and put it in the upper deck. He hits everything and hits it hard!
As far as hitting anything thrown, Vlad is your man.
But if you want all around stats, I'd go with Pujols.
2 years ago - Alex Rodriquez wins this arguement 5 years ago - Sammy Sosa or A-Rod 10 years ago - Ken Griffey Jr. 20 years ago - Jose Canseco? 50 years ago - Willie Mays 75 years ago - Babe Ruth 100 years ago - Ty Cobb? 120 years ago - Cap Anson?
Okay, I'm just making a lot of those up on the fly. But let the debate begin.
I would think Pujols is the obvious all-around candidate as well. My guy to watch right now is Ryan Zimmerman, though he's a bit light in the power categories, but then again, he spend only one year in the minors. Maybe he's got more pop in his bat.
It's hard to bet against vlad, but i gotta go with pujols. if he stays healthy the guy is a triple crown contestant year in and year out
i hate to say it but manny ramirez has gotta be up there too. looking at how long he has been hitting as good as he has, and his constant production year in and year out he's tough to argue with. granted he does have big papi protecting him in the lineup
as for sosa being the best hitter during his time, that was never the case. best power hitter, yea maybe so, but he just struck out too much all throughout his career to be considered a great all around hitter. and i think hes got about as good a chance at comin back as scottie pippen does
-- Edited by YankeeNation12 at 04:37, 2007-02-28
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
2 years ago - Alex Rodriquez wins this arguement 5 years ago - Sammy Sosa or A-Rod 10 years ago - Ken Griffey Jr. 20 years ago - Jose Canseco? 2 years ago, I can buy A Rod. 5 years ago maybe...but DEFINITELY not Sosa. I'm a Cubs fan, but there's no way he was the best hitter. He had a great couple seasons in spite of the stike outs, but I can't put Sammy Sosa and best hitter in the same sentence. Griffey Jr. is probably pretty accurate. Canseco? 20 years ago is pushing the extent of my knowledge, but really? Jose Canseco?
__________________
"It's the fans that need spring training. You gotta get 'em interested." - Harry Caray
not only was griffey the best hitter in his prime, he was the best player. if he would have stayed healthy he would be the one breaking all the records with a-rod trying to break griffey's records. in the field griffey was the best fielder in arguably the toughest position to field. he stays healthy, he retires as the greatest player ever.
Manny Ramirez will go down as one of the better hitters ever, and is the best hitter right now in the bigs. He doesnt overload himself with information on every pitcher and possibility, he just goes out and sees the ball and hits the ball... and does it better than most everyone. Most of the stats that everyone put so much emphasis on(such as batting average) are much less important than most people think. Batting Average will never tell you the whole story of a hitter. Theres stats out there that a casual fan could barely comprehend computing that would much more reliably answer such a question as this. So, while others may bat .380 or whatever, Manny is still subjectively the best hitter in baseball.
Well I cant say its not Pujols, but he does need to remain healthy. also, i would say i would almost say miguel cabrera is just as good. he hit .340 with 25 hr in florida where he doesnt have anywhere close to the protection in his lineup like pujols does
and dont forget about a-rod. he is having supposedly just awful seasons yet putting up incredible numbers and is still on pace to have more hits than pete rose and more home runs than hank aaron
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
...and you have to be kidding that a.jose canseco was the best hitter in the majors 20 years ago and b.Sammy Sosa was the best hitter in the majors 5 years ago. I laughed when I read that. If your basis for that argument was to add home runs and strikeouts together, then maybe. As far as 20 years ago, Tony Gwynn would be in the argument there as well as others, but I would say Gwynn. Theres a reason alot of young hitters want to work with him.
guy makes a good point, that stats like batting average and home runs dont mean it all. obp is probly more important than batting average cause its a true test of how well you get on base. and last year, leading the entire majors in OBP: Manny Ramirez
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I thought everyone was going to forget about Manny Ramirez until I saw Guy mentioned him. I have studied Ramirez very closely and analyzed his swing. He is one of the best all around hitters in the game. He has excellent mechanics and is able to drive any pitch where ever he wants. A lot of people forget what a great hitter he is due to his power and his sometimes flakey persona.
"Son, what are you doing sleeping in my daughter's dormroom?"
-"Uhhhhh, i got to go, im late for class."
-"Its Saturday morning."
-"Then im really late for class. Where are my pants?"
How could you say OBP is more important than batting average? Does getting walked make you a better hitter? I would say it makes you a better batter, but that is completely different. If anything I would take into account OPS, in which case Pujols slaughters Manny 1.102 to 1.058.
"Theres stats out there that a casual fan could barely comprehend computing that would much more reliably answer such a question as this"
What does that even mean? Like should we take into account crazy hair styles? Not being a team player?
I would say that Pujols has the sweetest swing in baseball. When he cranks one it hardly looks like he tries. Is he the best hitter ever? That remains to be seen and argued, but right now, there is no one else I would rather have hitting 3rd in my lineup.
__________________
Do you guys want the truth...or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!?
OBP is a great indicator of a good hitter. good hitters have good at bats. good at bats include working the count, fouling off tough pitches, and earning walks. there are times when you need to push to drive in runs, but in situations where there is no one in scoring position a walk is as good as a hit. im not even sure what the difference is between a good hitter and a good batter, but i know good hitters have good at bats, and those lead to walks.
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
To say that a walk is a good as a hit when no one is in scoring position is good baseball talk but who would you rather have up with no one on? A guy that is more likely to get a home run or a double to start a rally or a guy that will more likely hit a single or draw a walk
we are really splitting hairs here, but I think OPS is a better judge, and Pujols has the edge
__________________
Do you guys want the truth...or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!?
I'm not talkin OBP at all... read the book 'Moneyball' - the statistical analysis in there is incredible. They analyze things that tell the real story. Think of it this way...Randal Cunningham with the Vikings threw tons of TD passes because he hung the ball up in the air and threw ducks up to Randy Moss and he outjumped everyone and caught them. Does that make him a better QB than a guy who throws 5 Td's and 50% completions, but has his receivers drop another 20% of the passes? That is what I mean by stats not telling everything. It is a subjective question, you cant justify it by Batting Average telling you who the best hitter is, or OBP. OBP is a reliable stat for building a team because it tells you the percentage of the time that they wont spend one of your 3 outs when theyre at the plate, but doesn't necessarily make you a good hitter. All that being said, subjectively, Manny has the prettiest swing and the ability to do whatever he wants with the ball, whenever he wants to.
...just to go by stats, Travis Hafner is tied with Manny for 1st in OBP and is slightly behind Pujols in OPS. If someone tried telling me Travis Hafner is one of the top 2 hitters in the game right now, I'd shake my head and walk away.
I don't think it is as simple as that. Hitters who are patient and who draw walks wear down starting pitchers like crazy and get to the soft middle relief possessed by nearly every team in the game. OPS is a bitter judge, but OBP is a major component of OPS. Many stat geeks argue that the correct ratio should be 2X OBP + 1X Slugging percentage as opposed to 1 to 1. I think it should be fairly clear that a leadoff man who hits .285 but has a .400 OBP would be more valuable than one who hits .310 but has a .330 OBP.
Using your analogy, I would take the guy who is more likely to draw a walk, particularly if he is at the top of the order. Because if you have one or two guys on base that home run or double becomes lethal.
As far as best hitter is concerned, it really depends on how you define that. I would personally throwout compilers and niche hitters. I agree with most of you I think it comes down to Vlad, Albert, or Manny. Over the course of the season, I would probably take Pujols because he is more consistent. When Manny is hot though, I think he is better than anyone else.
You really just need to ask yourself who you'd want at the plate for you if you needed a hit in a pressure situation. Papi comes through in the clutch better than almost anyone, but I have to say I'd rather have Pujols at the plate for me over anyone else.
pujols is great to because he strikes out so little, half of what manny did last year, which means that he's putting the ball in play when the pitcher gets the best of him, leaving open a chance for an error or a bloop single
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
tyduffy wrote: OBP is a major component of OPS. Many stat geeks argue that the correct ratio should be 2X OBP + 1X Slugging percentage as opposed to 1 to 1.
Exactly. Getting on base is the most important thing, because you aren't making an out. It's why putting fast guys who can't hit like Juan Pierre at leadoff is stupid, and why a slow guy like Kevin Youkilis does so well leading off for Boston.
i aggree that speed does not equal being a good lead off man, but juan pierre is not the best example. he has become such a good bunter that he can bunt for a hit with consistancy, which in turns makes defenses play him differently which opens up more holes when he's swinging away which makes him a better hitter.
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Getting on base is important, but the difference between Pujols and Manny for OBP is so tiny that I think it can be considered a wash. So that is why I turn to SLG or OPS, in which case Pujols kills him.
Does it get more clear than that? Not to mention Pujols strikes out half as much as Manny, like YN said. If you find a meaningful stat where Manny is significantly better than Pujols, then maybe we can talk, but honestly it is just silly to think Manny is better than Pujols.
BTW lifetime OBP: Manny .411 Pujols .419
__________________
Do you guys want the truth...or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!?
Well it's definetly not just as simple as saying Pujols is a better hitter. He definetly puts up better stats but thats not what it's all about. To be a great hitter you have to hit all year long. In the World Series last year Pujols went 3 for 15 where Manny went 7 of 15 and won MVP honors in his World Series run. All I'm saying is that there is a reason that when you get the guys on Baseball Tonight and ask them who the best hitter in the league is, half of them say Manny Ramirez. There are factors that go into hitting that arn't stats. That's what the book Moneyball was all about, how scouts and GM's evaluate talent and what stats really mean. If stats were all it's about then the Yankees would win the World Series every year.
To be fair, Pujols had a .400 OBP last year which I don't think anyone can say is "bad." Two of his three hits were for extra bases including a home run. Not the best series ever but by far not the worst. Ramirez had a good series when the won, a great series actually, but when it comes down to it both teams won, both players contributed to their team.
We can argue about this back and forth, I can throw out all the splits that show pujols is the better, more consistant hitter and you guys can continue to claim that there are more important things to hitting than producing hits, but when it comes down to it I would like to have both these players on my team, just pujols a little more
plus I sense a little american league vs national league animosity
for the record this would be considered tongue in cheek
__________________
Do you guys want the truth...or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!?
i still dont think either manny or pujols were as good as bonds from a few years back. forget about the steroids, the guy had one of the best eyes and quickest hands ever. speaking numbers, he was just off the charts:
the year he hit 73 he had a .328avg, .515 OBP, .863 SLG, and 1.378 OPS
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Agreed, I don't even want to start bring players from the past back or players "in their prime" into the discussion because the argument would never end...and rightfully so because there have been too many good hitters to boil it down to one
__________________
Do you guys want the truth...or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!?
You I think we've decided that Manny and Pujols are probly the two best in the league, lets shift the conversation a little and hear who is either young and will be one of the best hitters in the league or someone who will break and and have a supprisingly monster year this year.
As I started in an earlier post, I think Robinson Cano will be the best hitter in the league in five years. He will be like a Tony Gywnn with more power in his bat, granted his numbers will be inflated some hitting in that Yankee line-up.
Also, as a side not, I have to be a little of a homer here and give some credit to how great of a hitter Andruw Jones is. Near the best in the league? no. all star hitter, absolutely and he has been doing it for years. One of hte best sports moments I have ever experienced was Jones hitting two home runs in the world series as an 18 year old.
Im a little biased cause I love the guy, but Jose Reyes is going to be a great hitter. For all the power he has in his bat, when he becomes more disciplined at the plate watch out. Discipline is the same problem for Jeff Francoeur in Atlanta, the guy is a power machine and a great hitter, just undisciplined, but that is one thing that can be taught and I think he could really progress nicely too.
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Robinson Cano is definately in the discussion, but I think sometimes we forget that Miguel Cabrerra is only 23 years old. Reading about him though, he seems like kind of a sketchy character guy. He might be too arrogant to do what he needs to fully maximize his potential, but if he even comes close to becoming what he is capable of becoming in 5 years, he could definately be one of the greats. Something about his attitude makes me think it is more likely that he remains stagnant as a player and basks in his own glory the rest of his career.
Semi-homer response here but how about Prince Fielder in 5 years? His abilities as a hitter are severely underrated by most who think he's just like his dad and is purely a power hitter.
Miguel Cabrera is a great pick. Yea he does seem liek he might be a headcase, but that doesnt make him not a great hitter. TO is a headcase and maybe you dont want him on your team but everytime he steps onto the field he produces. Everytiem Cabrera steps up to the batters box he produces. If Florida could get some revenue support from the community and get a new stadium and start making some money, they have a heck of a young nucleus and could be really good. As it is, they seem to win the world series every few years then unload their entire roster and still manage to get back there a few years later.
Yea Todd Helton always gets overlooked because he plays in Colorado and he plays in Coors Field but the guy could just stroke it. Another guy that hasn't been brought up is Joe Mauer. He's going to struggle because he's a catcher and takes such a beating, but all indications are that he could end up being a better hitting catcher than Mike Piazza which would be a good career. Staying on the Twins, what are the chances Justin Morneau has a year like last year?
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I like Morneau, I think he's pretty good, but come on, he can't possibly put up those kind of numbers again. I would be surprised if he hit 300 with 30 homers this year.
Comparing the rest of his career, which has been brief, to last year, it's hard to say that he will put up the same numbers, but even if he puts up a little bit less it's still a lot. But he also started off the year not so good, so maybe if he's consistant all year he can put up the same numbers.
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
Should Ryan Howard's name be brought into this conversation, or are we waiting until he throws up a couple more outstanding years.
BTW, does anyone else remember Dan Johnson get unanimously voted to the All Rookie team at First Base a couple of years ago (You know, when Ryan Howard won the ROY). Seems kind of foolish now, Ryan Howard comes out at bashes 58 HRs. Dan Johnson goes 1 for 28 and spends most of the year at AAA.
Ryan Howard should definetly be in this conversation. Even if he doesn't come that close to 60 HRs again he has solidified himself as one of the better bats in the middle of the line up.
__________________
"In big games, the action slows down for him where it speeds up for others. I've told him, 'I'll trade my past for your future.'" -Reggie Jackson on Derek Jeter
I still think it's too early to mention Howard. Maybe in a couple of years he will be considered one of the best hitters in the game today, but I have to see consistency. The best contact hitter is Ichiro, but I have to go with Pujols as the best overall hitter. He is a freak. He hits for avg. and power. The best part about it is Pujols rarely strikes out. Pujols struck out 50 times last year and Stephen Drew for the D-Backs struck out as many times as Pujols did in less than half the at bats. Pujols had 535 while Drew had 209 just to put in perspective how awesome Pujols is.
